AN INTERVIEW WITH MACKA B ( 20-11-94) The following interview was conducted at the "FNAC" in Toulouse on 20 November 1994. Eric Doumerc: Do you consider yourself as part of an oral tradition, an Afro-Jamaican oral tradition? Macka B: Yeah, I do. A lot of things I do are African in origin, you know. A lot of things Jamaican people do, even in England, are African in origin. These things that I talk about are to keep a certain identity as well, you know, certain things that people have died for, and given their lives for, which we must try to uphold, you know. So, I do consider myself as part of the Jamaican-African oral tradition. Eric Doumerc: And what's your relation to the dub poets? Do you consider yourself as different from, say, Linton Kwesi Johnson, or the other dub poets, or is it the same tradition to you? Macka B: Yeah, it's the same tradition, but it is a little bit different. A lot of people compare me with Linton Kwesi Johnson. A lot of people compare me with DJs. I think it's hard to categorize everything. What comes out of me is what comes out of me, and what comes out of Linton comes out of Linton. We're all from the same tree, you know, we're like different branches. Eric Doumerc: You started out as a sound system DJ. Was it in the mid-70's or the mid-80's? Macka B: Late, late 70's... Eric Doumerc: Okay, so what was the scene like, compared with today? Was it more militant, or would you say that slackness has been around for a long time? Macka B: It comes and goes, you see. It was more militant at that time, definitely, because everybody was just finding Rasta, you know. A lot of the music coming out of Jamaica was Rasta music, and everybody was getting this consciousness and started reading history books and , you know, became more conscious. So, it was more militant at that time. Eric Doumerc: What about the lyrics? Were they militant too? Macka B: It was both, you know... Because, to be honest with you, the first lyrics I ever talk, it was nothing to do with Rasta. It was a funny incident which happened between me and my friends, you know. We bought some hats from London, right... My friend whom I bought them for, when we reached Wolverhampton he was in a dance, he said "Put them in his car", and I put them in the wrong car, and I made a lyrics about it, because they understood what it was all about, you know, the reaction from the crowd... Eric Doumerc: So, the lyrics were a bit improvised... Macka B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's me! I get the vibrations, you know. If I get the vibes to do a lyrics, I can do it. About anything, but it's always a humorous one, and I'll try to put something cultural in it, some part of reality, some part of message. Eric Doumerc: Would you consider yourself as a kind of spokesman for your community in England, trying to put across their ideas, their point of view? Macka B: I wouldn't say I'm a spokesman. I would say I'm one of many spokespeople, you know, because it's not just me saying it, you know. It's like I've got the media to spread [ my message], but it's a lot of people who sing. I wouldn't like to say I talk for all the community, you know. I just try and talk what I think is truth and rights, you know. And some things, they are simple, you know, and people make it too complicated. It's simple, you know: there's right and there's wrong. Eric Doumerc: Do you think that things have changed for black people in England? Is there more tolerance, or do you still get a hassle? Macka B: You see, the problem now is... it's become more..., how can I say, devious now... Eric Doumerc: Subtle, maybe... Macka B: Yeah, that's the word I was looking for, subtle, yeah. In the 1970's, it was more upfront. There would be fights, you know. They beat up black people a lot. There would be fights between skinheads and black people, you know. But because of the riots and all of these things, they know black people will defend themselves. That's how it cooled down a little bit, you know. But this is still there, 'cause the percentage of black people in prison, it's too much compared to white people, you know. And the percentage of black people without a job, it's still too high. The percentage of black people who haven't got good houses, it's still too high, you know. It's still not a fair society, you know. And they do little things, bringing little legislation which directly affects black people. Eric Doumerc: You said you considered yourself as an African. When you go to Jamaica, what kind of response do you get? Do they treat you like a foreigner, like an English-born person, or do they consider you as 100% Jamaican? Macka B: To be honest, I got a really good reaction from Jamaica, 'cause I've been on Sunsplash twice and sing... Eric Doumerc: The response is good... Macka B: Yes, it's brilliant, you know. I even performed in front of Mandela. Eric Doumerc: Really? Macka B: Yeah, in the National Stadium, when he came to Jamaica. They love the way I talk, you know. But the way I'm talking to you now, I wouldn't talk like that in Jamaica, you know. I'd talking more raw, and they can't believe I'm born in England and talk like that! If they had heard how my father talk, them would understand! He still talk the same way, you know. No English whatsoever, you know. Eric Doumerc: So, when you're in England, depending on the person you're talking to, you tone down the dialect or... Macka B: Yeah, when you're talking, you're communicating. If someone can't understand you, why talking then? Eric Doumerc: That's true, but I find that some Jamaican DJs chat pure Jamaican patois, which makes things very difficult for a French audience when they try to make something out of the lyrics! But your lyrics are very forcefully put across, and your delivery makes them understandable... Macka B: Yeah, well.... The thing is, some DJs, they don't come to these countries... Some of the yard DJs, they go to America, where there's a large Jamaican population, you know. They go to New York, thousands of Jamaicans in New York. They go to Miami, they go to Canada, where there are lots of Jamaicans. When they come to England, they come to places where there's lots of Jamaicans. So, they don't need to... Eric Doumerc: Maybe one last question. Do you have any favourite tune or artist at the moment? Macka B: I couldn't say... I have so many, you know. One of my favourite tunes at the moment is a tune called "Tour" by Capleton. He's really conscious now, you know. He used to talk slackness. They call him "the prophet". I also love some roots tunes by Luciano, you know. Eric Doumerc: Yeah, I have a tune by Luciano entitled "Poor and Simple". Well, Macka B, thanks a lot and goodbye! Macka B: Goodbye! [Someone motioned Macka B that it was time to go, and the interview had to stop at that point.]